In Conversation with Rajeev Kathpalia
This transcript is an informal conversation between Saeb Ali Khan (MAUD '20) and Rajeev Kathpalia. Rajeev Kathpalia is a partner at Vastu Shilpa Consultants, the multi-disciplinary practice founded by Pritzker Prize laureate Balkrishna Doshi. Kathpalia’s work integrates frugal and environmentally responsible strategies to create inclusive habitats for people. Renowned for his institutional designs, he has won several national and international competitions for the Indian Institute of Technology, Indian Institute of Management and Nalanda University. His net zero approach to campus integrates architecture, landscape, ecology, energy generation and management - both human and mechanical – and is aimed at creating an equitable and inclusive social milieu.
SAK:
Your work is at the confluence of the synthetic and the natural, with a constant negotiation of the built form with the ecological systems around it. There are two questions here:
1. How do you think about the threshold between the synthetic and the natural, and
2. How does that philosophy translate into practice, affecting the act of creating space?
RK:
I think when we talk about boundaries, one never knows the boundaries and so each one is a negotiation to determine which part remains natural and which part becomes synthetic. Firstly, I’d like to underpin the fact that there are three things that I look at:
a) The first is the connection to the celestial and I believe that in some ways we’re connected to a larger order, which we’re not aware of because the time spans are very different. It’s like the horoscope of a person – the moment you take birth, or an idea takes birth, and I think I should use the term “idea” – its connected in some ways to that point in time. That’s not the end in itself, but the beginning of things. As a forecaster will tell you to not look at it as preordained wisdom, but as something that leads you to have inclinations which will then formulate into ideas.
b) The second part is the circadian rhythm we’re affected by. Studies have shown that over time it affects our mental well-being and thinking, as much as the physical renewal of the body and so I believe that architecture is about that. That is connected to the rhythms of night and day and the way the sun moves, so architecture is the revelation of things by light. Whatever you do is going to be governed by that. As you change latitudes, your need for sun light changes and the way you design changes, the openings change and so do the materials. All of this is connected to the fundamentals of architecture.
c) The third part is circumstantial. Whether you like it or not, we’re all affected by our circumstances – the terrain that we’re dealing with, the kind of environment or ecology that exists, the climate of the place, its culture, and of course the dreams, ideas and notions of the person/institution that commissions you – and sometimes that’s not related to the people you’re designing for– their aspirations, all of that is interconnected.
SAK:
I’m interested in understanding how you think about that line – the one that separates the land from water – the colonization of water. A stepwell for example is also a kind of separation, creating a hard edge that meets the water. You’re interested in designing cities and cities have these hard edges, but you also want these two systems to co-exist.
RK:
I think that depends. Things fluctuate – we have three seasons in this country (India). The monsoon is the arbiter between the hot and cold. We think about monsoon as the renewal and rebirth of life. Things dry up completely and the earth is dry, and suddenly the clouds burst – almost every year so if you must collect water, how do you do it? The edges that are created to do this differ from rural to urban conditions. If you look at the town of Boondi – a small town with 30-35000 people with all these little baolis (water collection tanks) all over the place, sometimes you have to go very deep to get to the source of the water. I think these kinds of circumstances define the edges you have to deal with.
SAK:
That’s interesting because you’re not only talking about the river at the moment it meets the land but you’re talking about the entire water cycle – about how the water comes down, how it’s collected, how it goes to the river and how it comes back.
RK:
Exactly. We’re also talking about what kind of soil it is, and very importantly we are also talking about a culture and its evolution over time. Each of these factors makes a difference in the way we collect and deal with water. There’s no one way to determine that. I think you have to look at each circumstance in its own right and merit and decide “this is what needs to be done.”
SAK:
Fiscal viability and environmental sustainability – these are two key drivers for your work, which has largely been designing educational campus. Essentially, you’re creating development prototypes that respond to urban issues that you think are critical. What is your strategy for getting these prototypes implemented outside the walls of the campus – in the increasingly complex landscape of Indian cities?
RK:
The city is a much more complex field to be operating in because the number of players and agencies involved in the management of things increases. The university decides its policy which is easier to deal with, so if you create prototypes of campuses at a certain scale, there is a very good chance that you can upscale them by demonstrating its utility – the fact that you’ve got something working. So, this is relevant whether it’s about water, sustainably or density. When we looked at student housing, we’ve always worked with very dense models of housing. Today, you can’t repeat the medieval city even though it is actually very effective. I’ve always wondered how the old city of Ahmedabad, which is just 2-3 stories high, has double and sometimes triple the density of the new city which has all these towers. It is because the towers are taller, so they need more space around them. The bylaws that were created for a garden city as opposed to the walled city – I think there’s a mismatch. A part of that is our colonial legacy which we chose to replicate without re-examining our built fabric. It has some facilities lacking but there’s mixed land use, small and big all shoulder to shoulder, a standardized system of building, resistant to earthquakes and the heat. They were also compact so you could walk to most places. By spreading ourselves so far, a lot of this is getting increasingly difficult to manage, including our rate of consumption. I think this needs to be re-examined with an open mind and we look at campuses as the crucible for attempting to formulate solutions that can be scaled up.
SAK:
Much of your work comes from competitions and is commissioned by the state/central government. In a democratic country, governments and elected officials change – as you mentioned sometimes even before the project is completed. Could you speak to the act of negotiation that allows you to successfully take your idea forward while the actors involved in the process continue to change?
RK:
I think I’m much more open ended because I know things are going to change. As I see it, one of the questions is “why are you in this practice?” I’ve asked this question myself several times. Is it about how much money you’re going to make out of this or how many projects are going to be completed and published or is it a passion for experimentation – “let’s try something and see where it goes?” For a young practice this is difficult because it needs to survive, but I always think about Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha – those beautiful words “I can wait, I can starve. These are the two things that take me through life.” Yes, you must have some sort of luck but if you believe in something passionately, things come true! This is completely illogical, but I believe it. When we went to Hyderabad many years ago, we went to the old city. This was many years after my education in the US. I went through the bazaars of Hyderabad and I wished I would get the chance to work with a city like this someday and ten years later I was there working on the pedestrianization of Charminar – through a series of fortuitous events of course, but I never imagined I would get that kind of a chance. So, I’m going off on a tangent from your question, but this happened again with Nalanda University. It’s a project we won in a competition which we almost didn’t even take part in but the desire to build something magnificent like the original ruins of Nalanda took us to that project. Coming back to the question, if you raise enough questions, most clients will support you. You may differ on several things, but you’ll have to persist and work twice as hard. Everyone else will pass because of the democratic structure but you will remain. Our projects take time, for the Earthquake memorial in Bhuj I’m on my third Chief Minister, seventh CEO and innumerable Collectors have participated over a span of 15 years. If you go in with this kind of an attitude, then you will temper yourself in such a way, especially in the hard periods where you differ on several things and keep thinking about what is it that anchors your idea.
SAK:
So, you’re designing and planning for those changes to occur?
RK:
They will occur whether you like it or not. I’ll give you an example. In Nalanda one day, the University decided to start painting the buildings. They said the exposed brick looked dull and old and started getting it painted even without informing us. I was aghast! I had to write convincing letters talking about what this would take away. I had to, of course, convince the board that it would take away immensely from what they had imagined from when the project started. So, it was put on hold, then we tried samples and fortunately people started to realize they were losing an important intangible aspect of the project.
SAK:
Let’s talk about Balkrishna Doshi. You’ve been a partner at Vastu Shilpa for decades. How does the presence of a figure like that affect the work that you do?
RK:
Doshi is a very generous person and a great teacher; has been, always. He’s not closed to different ways of interpretation. I think that’s very important. He’s never been a control freak who says, “this is the only way, and this is Doshi’s architecture.” That’s never been the case. You have to find your path and your way to do things and take responsibility for it. You can have any number of discussions and critiques and you may agree or disagree but that’s up to you. That’s one side of it. The other side of it is I believe I have my own way of solving things. I think we share a lot of things in terms of our values, but their interpretations are my own. I never felt the pressure of conforming to what he does. I think being yourself is a difficult task as it is – it’s a pretty challenging thing and you’d complicate it further by saying “that’s who I’m going to be.” That’s even more difficult. That’s what I learned while teaching as well. I learned a lot from my students and their wonderful ideas. It opens a lot of avenues for you. I never felt the need to be consistent in the architecture I do. The values were important and often common but how each project was interpreted was different. Take ideas, try out things, but in the end you have to eat the food and it has to become your blood.