In Conversation with Antoine Picon
The following conversation between Prof. Antoine Picon and William Toohey III (MAUD ‘20) took place on October 12, 2018 regarding the current state and future potentials of the pedagogy of urban design and related disciplines at the GSD.
Antoine Picon is the G. Ware Travelstead Professor of the History of Architecture and Technology and Director of Research at the GSD. He teaches courses in the history and theory of architecture and technology.
WT:
How would you describe pedagogy at the GSD?
AP:
What is striking at the GSD is the diversity of the dialectical approaches: from studio to classic lecture courses; from seminar to hands-on workshops. So, I think it's probably the diversity, which is for me the most striking aspect of what we do at the school, overall.
WT:
Compared to architecture or planning, how do you see UD differently?
AP:
The interesting thing for me with UD is that it’s a kind of frontier practice that is, on the one hand, close to architecture in some ways; you share with us (the Department of Architecture) a very strong design culture; you share with us a preservation for the relation between culture and the city, definitely. On the other hand, despite the fact that sometimes the relation may be complex with planning, you still hang on a lot with the planners. So, I see UD more as a kind of frontier domain at the intersection of various constituents of the school. That's the way I see UD. And I think its part of its anxiety because it's always typical to be located on a frontier, at a point in which things are traded. You’re a kind of trading zone, if you like, but it's also full of riches and interest.
WT:
How do you see the role of teaching and scholarship evolving, based on these different disciplines within the same building in such close proximity to one another?
AP:
Well, in general, I think the overall evolution is definitely the stronger role of research in articulation with teaching. That would probably be something it would retain. I think research has grown at the GSD, and UPD is one of the departments in which research has been very strong, so I do see that. And a number of people involved in research are very active instructors in the department especially with the UD component, so I think it's definitely one of the strong points of what's going on. I think also the social sciences have been very much on the rise. I think there is again a kind of anxiety about society, politics, etc. So, it's a shift in some ways, not only in terms of discipline, but behind discipline: social subjects. My concern is not to forget that there is a humanities component and there is a need for history. For example, you have Eve Blau teaching in this domain, and I think it's important to keep these components. The course I give is a history class that goes up to the present, so I would say my concern is really to keep the diversity. Also, if I may, I think one of the challenges will definitely be to open more to the technological dimension, which is also, of course, one of my interests. With the rise of the digital, someone [relevant to refer to would be] like Andres Sevtsuk [who] is teaching in your department. But I think more generally, [with] the challenges between the environment, the digital, etc., UD could be in a central place for that, and that might be something to develop further.
WT:
Based on what we know about the medium or media used, whether it’s a lecture, publication, podcast, or blog, where do you see the methods of how we teach and how we share or disseminate knowledge going? This could of course be in respect to technology. Do you think maybe new innovation is opening up new avenues for how we learn and distribute information?
AP:
Well, it seems pretty clear. You know, I'm more of a classic instructor, insofar that I teach history, etc., but I see overall. So, beyond my case, I think I see an evolution towards more interactive modes, like you mentioned, or multimedia. That's definitely something we have got to develop. I had a look at your website, and I think that kind of initiative in which students give feedback, express opinions, etc. is actually going in the right direction. That's to say, you know, we used to have a channel of communication that went pretty much in one direction: instructor [to] student. I think we're probably going to enter into a more multi-voiced and multi-directional kind of communication and instruction which is puzzling sometimes, because it was easier in some ways to imagine a top-down kind of teaching practice. I think we're going to evolve, in the years to come, into something that is a bit more different: more conversation-like, if you’d like.
WT:
Maybe like this…
(laughter)
This would be a nice form of learning and teaching.
AP:
Well, despite the fact that I am right now in Europe and it's already late in the afternoon, I think it's precisely important to open new channels of communication. That’s the reason I went to the website (UD:ID) when it was announced, because I was curious to see what was going on. I think we are going to have to evolve more and more in that direction.
WT:
To conclude, what do you believe is the most critical connection for urban designers to make from academia to practice? Do you think there’s a disconnect between the two?
AP:
Well, there is always a disconnect because as soon as you go into practice you have politics, you have the muddiness of budgeting, groups of interest, so it's unavoidable. Education is not a general rehearsal of practice; it's actually something in which you try to simulate a situation, knowing that this is simpler than the reality. That's my personal conviction. I think one of the difficulties today is that we are confronted with an [increasingly] short-term fabric of the city because of the financial character of the modes in which we produce the city. I think urban design, but it shares that, for me, with urban planning, should be responsible for the temporal [and] the longer temporal condition. And I think if you had something to retain from the education, [like] this old saying that cities are not made in one day, retain that the city is a palimpsest. The city is a trajectory, as much in time as it is in space: something we tend to sometimes forget because we’re looking for immediate answers. Something like sustainability is a trajectory; it’s not a once-and-for-all applicable solution that will solve everything. I think the real question for urban design, just like urban planning, is about trajectories: trajectories that unfold in space and time.
(pause)
But I'm a historian, sooo...
I would add that one of the things you do at school is try to unpack the complexity of situations and how layered urban reality is, so remember that when in practice. That would be what I personally suggest.
WT:
Well, I think it’s a great suggestion, so thank you.